This conversation is starting to remind me of one I frequently have with Te, wherein she has difficulty imagining the frequency with which I have to deal with profoundly stupid and ignorant people ("Stonehenge... they built that in like the 1700s, right?" "Counterintuitive? Is that a word?" "Frogs and bugs are classified as animals?
Te's much less willing to suffer foolishness than I am. Looks like she may be a lot less willing to suffer it than you do, too.
I sincerely wish I was making any of those up
It's okay. When you're done grieving for the world you can laugh at it and us in it.
I've been involved in science fiction fandom to varying degrees for about 25 years, like I said. Whether the other fans in question were more into television series, novels, or equally fannish for both, my experience is that people with the kind of racist arrogance redhawk displays are not only uncommon but shunned by the community when they do turn up.
It's nice to know that you've been lucky enough to play Peewee Reese. Or may have benefitted from folk stepping up to plate in the manner of Peewee Reese, but in my experience?
I talk about race and ethnicity with folk who've made a rather arbitrary cut. I talk to some folk in rl. And I'll discuss it with some folk online, but I'm not open. And I won't apologize for that. But look, here I am discussing it with you, and I haven't the foggiest if you're of color or not. :)
Definitely, I'm benefitting.
I realised that fans of science-fiction films tend to fall into two very different groups: fans of science fiction (books and/or television series) who also appreciate some films enough to be fannish about them but avoid or are outright disgusted by most of what passes for science-fiction cinema; and fans of Hollywood science fiction (often primarily or exclusively of the Star Wars franchise which isn't properly science fiction at all but "space opera") who may occasionally watch science-fiction television series, rarely if ever read any science-fiction novels or short stories which aren't tie-ins to a franchise, and tend to hate more highbrow sci-fi films such as The Man Who Fell to Earth.
This is an interesting distinction. I wish to read more on it, and I'd like to know what other folk think. Most of the fen I've been dealing with, though, are out of comicbook fanfic land. And maybe it's not so much racism and privilege but being a bunch of rude know it alls that are as good at giving offense to non-comic book X-Men fans as they are some people of color. Certainly, I don't speak for all fans of color. Like, ninamonkey and minisinoo can deal with certain rude people with grace or at least forebearance. Others? Nope.
I think comic book fans that I've known tend to be widely read, well-informed, and, um, knowledgeable. As for the difference between sci-fi movie/tv fans and readers in the genre...hunh. I don't know. In fact, I'm wondering if thinking that holds a bias in favor of folk who have enjoyed a certain sort/level of education.
Boy, howdy, this is a fascinating discussion. :)
THANKS!
But see, I come out of X-Men comicbook fandom, and let me tell you, that's full of people who think they've got race and ethnicity figured out. But the irony of a bunch of folk digging on a 'verse that basically took 'Malcolm vs. Martin' and ran with it, and still manage to be nigh on fucking clueless when it comes to offense, privilege, and mannerlessness?
Yeah.
So. Done. I'll read fic, write fic, read books, read stories, but I've found that the less I know about what an active sci-fan's thoughts on race, the more I'm able to enjoy their work/efforts.
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timeasmymeasure
Re: part 1: the fans
Date: 2004-12-20 09:29 am (UTC)Te's much less willing to suffer foolishness than I am. Looks like she may be a lot less willing to suffer it than you do, too.
I sincerely wish I was making any of those up
It's okay. When you're done grieving for the world you can laugh at it and us in it.
I've been involved in science fiction fandom to varying degrees for about 25 years, like I said. Whether the other fans in question were more into television series, novels, or equally fannish for both, my experience is that people with the kind of racist arrogance redhawk displays are not only uncommon but shunned by the community when they do turn up.
It's nice to know that you've been lucky enough to play Peewee Reese. Or may have benefitted from folk stepping up to plate in the manner of Peewee Reese, but in my experience?
I talk about race and ethnicity with folk who've made a rather arbitrary cut. I talk to some folk in rl. And I'll discuss it with some folk online, but I'm not open. And I won't apologize for that. But look, here I am discussing it with you, and I haven't the foggiest if you're of color or not. :)
Definitely, I'm benefitting.
I realised that fans of science-fiction films tend to fall into two very different groups: fans of science fiction (books and/or television series) who also appreciate some films enough to be fannish about them but avoid or are outright disgusted by most of what passes for science-fiction cinema; and fans of Hollywood science fiction (often primarily or exclusively of the Star Wars franchise which isn't properly science fiction at all but "space opera") who may occasionally watch science-fiction television series, rarely if ever read any science-fiction novels or short stories which aren't tie-ins to a franchise, and tend to hate more highbrow sci-fi films such as The Man Who Fell to Earth.
This is an interesting distinction. I wish to read more on it, and I'd like to know what other folk think. Most of the fen I've been dealing with, though, are out of comicbook fanfic land. And maybe it's not so much racism and privilege but being a bunch of rude know it alls that are as good at giving offense to non-comic book X-Men fans as they are some people of color. Certainly, I don't speak for all fans of color. Like,
I think comic book fans that I've known tend to be widely read, well-informed, and, um, knowledgeable. As for the difference between sci-fi movie/tv fans and readers in the genre...hunh. I don't know. In fact, I'm wondering if thinking that holds a bias in favor of folk who have enjoyed a certain sort/level of education.
Boy, howdy, this is a fascinating discussion. :)
THANKS!
But see, I come out of X-Men comicbook fandom, and let me tell you, that's full of people who think they've got race and ethnicity figured out. But the irony of a bunch of folk digging on a 'verse that basically took 'Malcolm vs. Martin' and ran with it, and still manage to be nigh on fucking clueless when it comes to offense, privilege, and mannerlessness?
Yeah.
So. Done. I'll read fic, write fic, read books, read stories, but I've found that the less I know about what an active sci-fan's thoughts on race, the more I'm able to enjoy their work/efforts.