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buggeryAnother case where this is too damned important not to get its own post.
First-hand account of a location FEMA is setting up in Oklahoma for evacuees from the areas devastated by Hurricane Katrina
Go and read the full account. Then call/write/e-mail/fax your own representatives in Congress (if you are a US citizen or resident); the governor, the Senators and members of the House of Representatives for Oklahoma (edited to add:) and Colorado; the White House; FEMA; and your local news media. RAISE HELL. Contact information for elected government officials at all levels for all states can be found here. Don't forget to spread the news to less-internet-savvy friends, family, neighbours, co-workers, etc., and encourage them to speak out as well. Evacuees may or may not be getting subjected to this treatment RIGHT NOW in Oklahoma, but if or when evacuees do arrive there -- or at certain other sites around the country set up for evacuee relocation -- there has not even been the pretence, from any FEMA or other government official, that treating evacuees like prisoners is not considered acceptable. (edit: there is now a major-newspaper confirmed account of evacuees being held at a location with similar restrictions near Denver, Colorado; see the bottom of this post.)
Selected excerpts from the account, to underscore exactly how EVIL the government's current plans for 'housing' evacuees are:
FEMA will not allow any of the kitchen facilities in any of the cabins to be used by the occupants due to fire hazards. FEMA will deliver meals to the cabins. The refugees will be given two meals per day by FEMA. They will not be able to cook. In fact, the "host" goes on to explain, some churches had already enquired about whether they could come in on weekends and fix meals for the people staying in their cabin. FEMA won't allow it because there could be a situation where one cabin gets steaks and another gets hot dogs - and...
it could cause a riot.
It gets worse.
He then precedes [sic] to tell us that some churches had already enquired into whether they could send a van or bus on Sundays to pick up any occupants of their cabins who might be interested in attending church. FEMA will not allow this. The occupants of the camp cannot leave the camp for any reason. If they leave the camp they may never return. They will be issued FEMA identification cards and "a sum of money" and they will remain within the camp for the next 5 months. (underlined emphasis mine; bolded emphasis in original)
Two meals a day for five months. No one can visit you. You can't leave. Donations of food from the Red Cross, church groups (including the churches which *own* the cabins which are being used at this site) or private individuals will not be allowed in. WTF.
We start unloading our snacks. Mom appeared to have cornered the market in five counties on pop-tarts and apparently that was an acceptable snack so the guy started shoving them under the counter. He said these would be good to tied people over in between their two meals a day. But he tells my mother she must take all the breakfast cereal back. My mother protests that cereal requires no cooking. "There will be no milk, ma'am." My mother points to the huge industrial double-wide refrigerator the church had just purchased in the past year. "Ma'am, you don't understand...
It could cause a riot."
He then points to the vegetables and fruit. "You'll have to take that back as well. It looks like you've got about 10 apples there. I'm about to bring in 40 men. What would we do then?"
My mother, in her sweet, soft voice says, "Quarter them?"
"No ma'am. FEMA said no...
It could cause a riot. You don't understand the type of people that are about to come here...."
AMERICAN CITIZENS are the type of people who will be going there! AMERICAN CITIZENS! What is this, 1942?! WE DO NOT LOCK PEOPLE UP FOR THE CRIME OF HAVING SURVIVED HURRICANE KATRINA.
And no, being free (*maybe* -- it could, after all, cause a riot) to walk out -- into the middle of bloody nowhere in an unfamiliar state with nothing but the clothes FEMA deigned to allow to be donated to you -- is not being 'free' at ALL if doing so means that you lose your disaster-relief benefits by doing so. These people have no homes or jobs to go back to; they are dependent on others' assistance, whether from (if they're lucky) friends or family, or private charities or other institutions, or the government.
There are, by the way, going to be children at this camp. One of the 'hosts' (and what a horrifying euphemism that is -- clearly the evacuees are not to be treated as guests, so maybe we're supposed to read them as parasites?) explained that some of the camp's cabins had been designated men-only (for 'men' 14 and up), some women-only, and others for families. But NO MILK, along with that generous TWO MEALS A DAY. Including for the children sent there, presumably, because if the kids get the nutrition their growing bodies need but every adult doesn't get the same ration, it could cause a riot.
RESTRICTING PEOPLE TO TWO MEALS A DAY FOR FIVE MONTHS WILL CAUSE RIOTING BY ITSELF, YOU FAPPING MORON FUCKTARDS AAAAAGH.
More about where this internment camp -- or, as Valhall (Val Hall?), the author refers to it, detainment camp -- is located...
From the moment I heard about Falls Creek being scheduled to receive refugees I had two thoughts run through my mind:
1. What a beautiful place to be able to stay while trying to get your life back in order.
2. What a terrible location to be when you're trying to get your life back in order.
The first thought is because Falls Creek is nestled in the Arbuckle Mountains of south central Oklahoma. One of the more beautiful regions of the state. It would be a peaceful and beautiful place to try to start mending emotionally, and begin to figure what you're going to do next.
The second thought comes because Falls Creek is very secluded and absolutely no where near a population center. The closest route from Falls Creek to a connecting road is three miles on a winding narrow road called "High Road" (It gets that name for two reasons - it's goes over the mountain instead of around it like "Low Road" does, and it's where the teenagers of the area go to party). The road has not a single home on it for over 3 miles. After battling that 3 miles over mountains, you'll find yourself about 5 miles from the nearest town, Davis, Oklahoma, population ca. 2000. This is no place to start a new life.
She also notes that the area is notorious as a 'dead zone' for cellular phone service due to geography. There's no specific information on landlines at the camp, but my own experience of summer camps (which is how the facility is normally used) is that the cabins kids stay in do not have phone, only some administrative buildings do, and there are a small number (sometimes only one) of payphones for kids to use to call home or get calls from home. How are these people supposed to make any arrangements on their own for housing or employment if they have to wait on line for hours waiting to use the phone? Oh, wait, if anybody gets to use a telephone, that might cause a riot, so probably there will be no phone use allowed for the evacuees at all.
Updates and further details posted in the comments on the original account follow.
Timestamped 6-9-2005 at 09:41 AM (that means 6 September, not 9 June, obviously)
Springer just spoke with the preacher of our church. This is what he has been told. FEMA has stated until they get these people "in the system", which means on welfare/medicaid, unemployment, etc. and until they have worked through the health issues (the preacher was told there are three outbreaks of dysentary in the group of people coming to this camp) no one will be able to come in the camp and no one will be able to leave. Our preacher had had an offer from one man to come in and wire our cabin with satellite so that it could have TV reception. FEMA told him he could not come in due to health concerns.
The preacher stated that when the southern Baptist convention "donated" (I'm assuming that means they are taking no monies) the camp to FEMA for this purpose they had to sign over complete control. The preacher said we have no say in how things go from that point on. FEMA then "hired" (I guess) the OHP for "security purposes".
The preacher also had asked about the children and he was told that once the health concerns were under control the children would be attending school. But it his understanding this school will be inside the camp.
All of this makes sense to me and Springer. But I do question why taking sick people into a wilderness setting, in a confined area with 5000 people, is deemed a more appropriate action than taking them to hospitals. The camp is at least a 30 minute drive to the closest adequate hospital. The question becomes - how long will it take to get the health issues under control? Maybe FredT or some one can address that question.
A man in this area who owns a machine shop has already informed the preacher that if anybody in the camp has machining capabilities, he has two houses he owns available for them to move into and jobs for them.
CORRECTION: There are RUMORS of three dysentary outbreaks. The reason given for the lock-down is so they can figure out who is sick and who is not.
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Timestamped 6-9-2005 at 01:14 PM
Here are the two things that bothered me the most yesterday. The attitude that the people who were coming didn't have the morals to handle finding out the cabin down the street was getting a bit better grub than them without breaking out into camp-burning riots...
and the fact that the military has taken the first cabin in after you come through the main gate. I'm not real sure why the military has to be there at all to be quite honest, but why did they plant them as the first thing for these people to see when they drive through the front gate? That thought makes me sad.
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Timestamped 6-9-2005 at 01:24 PM
The cooking thing doesn't bother me that much, because I can see that it could lead to new big bold headlines. It's the fact they can't use the kitchen at all basically. They can make their own coffee (wow!), but they can't even have milk for cereal. We can't even bring them cold-cuts and cheese for sandwiches. That's a bit extreme. Concerning the potential for damage, I can only speak for the members of our church I have visited with. We knew full-well going in that you'll "get all kinds" when you're trying to help a large mass of people and that there's always the possibility of getting some one who has no regard for some else's property. Because, as my daughter so eloquently put it when the "bad people" comment was made last evening - there's SOME "bad people" everywhere...you always have some "bad people". Quite frankly the comment concerning vandalism or such was that we know we're doing the right thing...everything will be okay - even if we have to rebuild the darned thing.
Okay - just want to make clear on this. They cannot leave and come back - for 5 minutes, 10 minutes or 1/2 day. And that's confirmed too many ways now. The question is now - is this an extremely short-term situation? (this processing thingy). If so, I have no problem with that. That's what we'll have to wait out.
The kfor.com article above stated phone service is being established. But then again, they said the Red Cross and the SBC is setting up the shelter needs and the Salvation Army is supplying clothes...
so I wouldn't try to bank on that in Denver, just yet.
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Timestamped 6-9-2005 at 01:48 PM
They will have heaters. Most have central heat and air and I'm sure the kind folks at FEMA - oops I mean the Red Cross are making sure they get cabins equipped with such. And just as soon as the Salvation Army gets through distributing the amphitheater full of Oklahoma citizen-donated clothing they claim they're donating...I'll try to get these 6 bags of clothes I'm running around with turned in. God knows we need to keep these massive-money-munching charities looking good! (We've got a whole bag of winter clothes in ours and as the season changes I'm sure people - oops, I mean the Salvation Army - will start getting them warmer clothes.
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Timestamped 6-9-2005 at 03:56 PM
I'm not talking about "inconveniences" and expecting life's niceties to be as they were before this. I'm talking about a government assisting a group of people through a tough time without the group of people having to give up inherent rights to get that help.
That's all in the world that is on my mind right now. Do I want them to have three meals a day? Yes. But if the government can't give them three, and can only give them two, that's okay as long as the government doesn't prevent me, a fellow citizen, from providing the third meal. That about sums up my concerns right now.
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Timestamped 6-9-2005 at 10:08 PM
I don't think there's any point you can miss. I believe the rest of us had, up until this point, tried desparately to miss your point. The U.S. government is not required to assist a single person in need. But through the voice of the American citizens it has heard loud and clear that in times of need we will step forward and help. The government decided, based on the perceived and real compassion of the American citizenry, to build a bureacratic agency that would dole out compassion in the name of the people. They failed. The money they have taken, and will continue to take, to fund FEMA comes from the compassionate people's pockets. The people who will continue to step forward and assist their fellow man in time of need - even after they themselves have been robbed by the bungling bureacrats.
Basic needs being met by charitable contribution, or stolen tax dollars in inept bureaucratic moves, should never require payment in the form of inalienable rights and inherent freedoms of the U.S. citizen.
Some of these people will be better off now, getting better food and shelter than they have had in their lives. Some of these people have lost everything and now stand on level ground with those who have been lifted up.
It doesn't matter. The price for charity is zero. And lest there ever be any price attached to it, it will never be the relinquishing of personal rights and freedoms for those basic needs.
These measures are not for the purpose of controlling these people. Not if they are being done in my name and with my tax dollars. They are to supply basic needs for the purpose of survival. These people owe me nothing, and more importantly they owe the governmental agencies that are providing these services in my name less.
You are not diminished as a citizen because you have been diminished in assets. (emphasis in original)
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Timestamped 7-9-2005 at 07:33 AM
It seems (again we're relying a state level media that says Red Cross is running Falls Creek) that things are quite a bit different at Camp Gruber (another refugee camp here in Oklahoma). You need a free subscription to read the entire article in the Daily Oklahoman.
Evacuees get settled, ready to go to school
Many of the evacuees to Camp Gruber have already left for family and friends homes. Elementary and middle-high kids remaining at the camp will attend school at Muskogee. High school kids will attend Tahlequah - an 80 mile roundtrip! (emphasis in original)
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Timestamped 7-9-2005 at 08:30 AM
This is true. The governor of Oklahoma declared it in a state of emergency prior to receiving refugees.
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Timestamped 7-9-2005 at 09:11 AM
And so the story changes again...
http://www.kfor.com/Global/story.asp?S=3812422
They were supposed to have arrived first on Sunday night, then on Monday night. They're still not there. Furthermore, our preacher and the host we spoke to at the cabin both stated these refugees were coming "straight from somewhere in Louisiana" but this article states these will be people brought from Texas (I assum from the Astrodome).
Please note this is the same news agency that yesterday stated the Red Cross was working with the SBC to meet "sheltering needs". I called the news desk yesterday and asked why they had an article so wrought with erroneous statements. The lady I spoke with asked if I worked for Falls Creek. I stated I didn't and explained why we had been over there on Monday. She then says "you'll have to contact some one associated with Falls Creek organization and have them call us in order to get this corrected". EXCUSE ME??? THAT WOULD BE YOUR JOB - JOURNALIST!!!
Please note that today Red Cross and Salvation Army have not been mentioned, credit has been given to the church members of the various churches who worked their nipples and nuts off over the weekend, and the Oklahoma Emergency Management Agency and FEMA are now referenced in this article.
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Timestamped 7-9-2005 at 09:39 AM
The insanity and discrepancies continue.
A member of our church was sent by the preacher with a load of supplies yesterday (the preacher gave him his "credentials" to get in). He dropped the supplies off inside the camp. He states there were refugees everywhere.
*sigh*
I'm going to get hold of this person later in the day and speak with him personally to find out if he was allowed free access to the cabin or if he had to drop things at the "central warehouse".
I'll report back later. I'm getting tired of the mish-mash mess coming from the press.
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Timestamped 7-9-2005 at 11:23 AM
Just spoke with the church member who delivered the goods yesterday (who happens to be my nephew). He counted at least 10 buses that had arrived and a number of refugees. No refugees have been placed in our cabin yet. The pass he entered on was confiscated and he was informed that there would be "new" passes and he would not be able to get back in unless he had one of them. He phoned the preacher who confirmed he had already received the new "official" passes (apparently the original passes were hurriedly made from something readily available from Falls Creek and the new ones are the government issued ones, we are supposing). He was allowed to go all the way to our cabin and did not have to offload our church's supplies to a central location (which is good news). He did state he felt that security was being ramped up while he was there. There were several "people in BDU's" near the front gate when he entered. I didn't get the impression they in any way interacted with him though[.]
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Timestamped 7-9-2005 at 11:45 AM
BDU's - battle dress uniforms
It's better than seeing people in their BVD's...I think. (Image copied and uploaded to my LJ to avoid bandwidth theft.)
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Comment by QuietSoul (NOT by Val)
Timestamped 7-9-2005 at 11:48 AM
Something's not jiving here...
link [dead link; see below]
So are refugees there or not?
They rent the facility for 5 months.. They hire 1200 volunteers + staff.. and then call the whole thing off after the entire camp is mobilized and setup? (emphasis in original)
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Timestamped 7-9-2005 at 12:39 PM
QuietSoul,
Either your link is [not] working or the article has been removed.
here's the correct link
Stand by
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Timestamped 8-9-2005 at 05:28 AM
It appears something similar to what has occurred here - where the state and local people have rushed to organize facilities and then FEMA has all of a sudden called off sending evacuees - has occurred in several states.
http://www.newsok.com/article/1609062/?template=home/main
Timestamped 8-9-2005 at 06:51 AM
This thing just is killing me. It is not going to surprise me when the governors take over. I mean truly just kick FEMA out of the situation.
Governor Perry in Texas is pleading for help. He's got every convention center in Houston packed with people sleeping in a communal space with no privacy, not even a semblance of dignity. THERE IS NOTHING DIGNIFIED ABOUT HAVING TO SLEEP AMONG 12000 PEOPLE ON AN ARENA FLOOR.
He needs help. He needs to start moving these people out of this situation. He calls for help and the good governors of the surrounding states step up to help him. BUT FEMA SCREWS IT UP.
Falls Creek, if used PROPERLY, LOGICALLYand PRAGMATICALLY, and with what should be the utmost priority of moving the most people to the best environment in the quickest manner, would be the BEST processing site anyone could pick. If the camp was used to house people for no more than 2 to 3 weeks while you are finding them an apartment and getting all their needs set up through entitlements, it would be a pleasant, peaceful place that would at least give some semblance of dignity and community versus a FARKING ARENA FLOOR.
But NOOOOO, even if the "host" was dead wrong and these people were going to be allowed to come and go after some "processing" period, this is not a place you take 3000 urban dwellers and stick themf or 5 months! And even if they "come and go" it would be limited because it would have to be scheduled bus runs to places.
If farking FEMA isn't working to get ever single displaced person into an apartment or house in some metropolitan area as quickly as they possibly can - THEY ARE CONTINUING TO SCREW THESE PEOPLE!
Let's just say there are a 1/2 million people who need to be placed in long-term housing and all a full entitlement package (food stamps, aid for dependent children, medicaid, housing and utilities). The whole farking package would be $5000/month or less. And assuming that each of the 1/2 million people got their own apartment (which isn't so because there are families) that's 2.5 billion/month. FEMA's SPENDING 1/2 BILLION A DAY!
AND - to say that the 2.5 billion/month was all due to Katrina would be flying crock of because with 25% of New Orlean's population under the national poverty line A WHOLE HEAPING HELPING OF THESE PEOPLE WERE ALREADY ON A FULL ENTITLEMENT PACKAGE!
These people need to be moved 3000 at a time out of the humiliating environment that Barbara Bush thinks is "good" to places like this camp for no longer than 2 - 3 weeks and then MOVED INTO HOUSING. There's Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin, OKC, Tulsa, Ft. Smith, Shreveport/Bossier City, Little Rock, Memphis, Louisville.
Start treating them like people! PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES!!!
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Timestamped 8-9-2005 at 07:14 AM
[In response to a comment by an ATS user registered as mrsdudara] No mrs....they didn't arrive Saturday night. And please note that the statements made in that article [ http://feeds.oklahomacitynews.net/?rid=defd58c42bb77c24&cat=ade52738bf7d5fc8&f=1 ] were made by the Falls Creek leader PRIOR to FEMA telling them how it would REALLY be.
All weekend church members worked to fill these "buckets of blessings" and to ready this camp to PAMPER these people and dote on them as long as they needed to. Then - Monday came and a big phat reality check.
I've got to tell you at this point I'm not sure the deal wasn't busted on the Falls Creek side instead of the FEMA side. I'm serious. I have more pictures of our time in there than what I've posted on this thread. One picture my daughter took was of one of the top men at Falls Creek...one of the people in charge. As we turned the corner which led us passed the troops this man was standing with two other men who appeared to work for Falls Creek. This man was VISIBLE ANGRY. I noticed his face as I turned the corner, but did not know who he was. My daughter knows him. She goes "OH my gosh, mommy! There's (I forget his name). Oh my gosh! Look how mad he is! Oh my gosh!" And she snaps the picture.
She later told me that he is a very happy person who she has only seen get angry one time before and it was over some situation that had been reported out of Germany where the German government had pulled something with some southern baptist missionaries. But she followed up - He wasn't near as mad as he looked yesterday!
I personally have to state that I don't want the camp used for a 5 month holding facility. Wouldn't that just be f-ing great to have horror stories come out of a southern baptist camp? And I also have to say I'm not sure this whole 5 month holding plan wasn't chosen for this camp BECAUSE OF THAT. So that if anything went wrong, or the whole experiment went bad FEMA could just blame it on those crazy fundamentalist, evangelical southern baptists!
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Timestamped 8-9-2005 at 08:11 AM
More details on that. He stated he saw about 10 buses total. 2 of those were large charter buses and the others were "smaller", but larger than school buses - these buses were white and he didn't see any kind of markings on them. I asked him if they were the Falls Creek shuttle buses (which are old school buses painted white and have "Falls Creek Shuttle" painted on the side and front). He said "No! No, They weren't Falls Creek buses, and they were bigger than those.) He states he saw some where between 50 and 100 people standing in a rather scattered fashion, but in the same general area. Almost all of these people were african-american and they were loitering about as if they were waiting for something to happen....i.e. they weren't "doing anything" like they were workers or such. 50 to 100 people would be just about right for two greyhound buses - especially if people had any belongings with them.
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Timestamped 8-9-2005 at 02:52 PM
Hey guys,
I just want you all to know I just turned down an interview with NPR about this story. I wanted you to know so that you would understand that people do listen to us. And we do have a voice. And we can make a difference. I also wanted to say how grateful I am that NPR was willing to give me the opportunity to discuss this. I'm sorry that I couldn't do it though. NPR couldn't afford me anonymity and I just don't feel personally comfortable with discussing this in my real name.
I hope everybody understands.
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Timestamped 9-9-2005 at 06:46 AM
Here is the Google satellite pic for directly over Falls Creek:
Falls Creek
I was informed yesterday that there was some podunk doomsday board that was attempting to debunk what I have told here by stating Falls Creek is a national guard training camp and it was used as some type of concentration camp or what not back during WW II and that as late as the 80's it was just a tent camp, etc. And that it's very close to Camp Gruber.
Absolutely every statement in the above paragraph is false.
1. Falls Creek has ALWAYS been the property of the Oklahoma state Baptist convention since it was founded in 1917.
2. It has never been a national guard training facility.
3. It has never been a concentration/detainment camp.
4. With the exception of new cabins constantly being built by churches the camp looks about the same as it did in the 70's. The most drastic changes are being made right now with the old Tabernacle being bulldozed and new Tabernacle being built. The amphitheatre is new as well. But it hasn't had tents anytime in my life. It has had structured cabins for decades and decades.
5. Falls Creek is about 8 miles south of Davis, Oklahoma. Camp Gruber, which is a National Guard training facility, is by Muskogee, Oklahoma. The driving distance between these two towns is 205 miles - about 3 hours.
[mapquest image not displayed due to size; click to view]
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Timestamped 9-9-2005 at 10:04 AM
I just wanted to follow up on the comments concerning "confirming" this story. I have now spoken with a reporter from NPR and a reporter with the Daily Oklahoman. In both cases I have given my full REAL name to these reporters. The NPR person did not request a contact number from me, but in the case of the Daily Oklahoman, not only do they have my home number, they have my work number. What I'm trying to emphasize here is that I'm not trying to keep my real identity from what I have stated here. I'm trying to keep my identity from being revealed HERE.
There's a big difference. So I guess my point is, if knowing who I am constitutes "confirming" this story - it's been "confirmed" to two separate reporters. The Daily Oklahoman reporter is working to be able to report this story and still provide me a level of anonymity. If his editor says no, then again, I guess it won't get reported. But as I stated to him on the phone last night, there needs to be a precedent on this at some point. There is a growing number of civilians out in the world that are no longer accepting mainstream reports at face value and are witnessing things they have no way to make public unless some one can protect them.
If it doesn't happen with me, it will eventually happen with some one. But there is no reason for me to endanger my job, or my privacy (let's face it 1.3 million sets of eyes look at this website every month!) when I am cooperating on the backside to confirm my identity and even my story.
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Timestamped 9-9-2005 at 03:27 PM
Well beings there have been numerous articles stating no one is over there. I'm assuming no one is over there. If the people my nephew saw on Tuesday were, in fact, evacuees, apparently they were in transit and continued on (possibly to Gruber, but I don't know).
As far as I know no one from our church has been back over there since they sent home all the "hosts". (emphasis mine)
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Timestamped 9-9-2005 at 03:50 PM
I just wanted to say something. I don't mind at all some one asking me questions if they some way have doubts about my post. I don't mind that at all. But it's disingenuous to start silly personal pock-shots based on semantics.
I had no agenda - other than sharing what I saw and was told. That's all I've done here. I've repeated my experience. I've repeated the statements made to me. I've shared what I saw. And I've shared my daughter's pics.
I had my son look over my post to ensure that everything was factual according to what we saw and what we were told. My son is 21 years old and lives on his own now and he is his own man. He did find one error and that was when I quoted him. When I stated he said, "Welcome to Krakow." That was wrong...he corrected me that his statement was "Welcome to Nazi Germany." So, now I have corrected that.
Actually, up until just a few days ago my son was the neo-con of our family. And he was proud of that I suppose. He no longer is. We're a family of Republicans, but we're a family of very confused Republicans right now. Mind you - I'll never be a Democrat - and I won't - but I'm not sure where to turn now.
My son and my daughter both came away from this aware that if they ever are so unfortunate to lose everything they own (no matter how much or how little that originally was) they will live in the woods, swamp or mountains, but they won't go and ask for government assistance. I didn't teach them that - their experience taught them that. We went over there to participate in a charitable effort. That's not the experience we had.
All I can do is tell what actually happened...I can't make you believe it.
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This LJ post has now been edited to add: I have copied out all of Val's updates as of 7am ET on Saturday 10 September. Based on her most recent updates, the Falls Creek camp, according to official reports, will not be receiving any evacuees and never housed any, though plans to do so had been made and were later put on hold. This does not explain, however, the eyewitness report of "between 50 and 100 people," mostly black, who were seen at Falls Creek along with approximately 10 busses which appeared to have brought them there, sometime between Monday 5 September and Thursday 8 September -- in other words, roughly contemporaneously with the announcement that the Falls Creek camp would not be used to house refugees. No one from the church groups affiliated with the camp, at last report, had been back to the site in several days to be able to confirm the presence or absence of Katrina evacuees.
For all we know, evacuees *are* being sent to Falls Creek, and there's no reason to think conditions there would be improved by having independent outside contact cut off or the media turning their attention away, if that were the case.
The most important thing is not whether this one particular camp is going to house evacuees or not. The most important thing is that FEMA was all ready to go ahead with plans to send evacuees there under the conditions described above.
This could happen almost anywhere in America.
As a people, we have to choose whether to be vigilant, or to be silent. (Check out what the media were reporting about Falls Creek, as quoted in or linked from the transcribed updates above, and think twice about accepting at face value any news item about conditions at sites you could investigate for yourself.) But one thing is clear -- if we are not watching, this is what the federal government will try to do. That's not wild speculation; it's not speculation at all. It is what happened in Oklahoma.
A related account about a relocation site being prepared for evacuees in Massachusetts can now be found in a separate entry here. (Thanks for your patience.)
And, just a reminder, evacuees will NOT be able to tell friends, family, the media, or anyone else where they're being sent for interim shelter before they get to their destination, because FEMA won't be telling THEM where they're going.
Other first-hand accounts I have linked to, transcribed and/or excerpted can be found here.
Edited to add: Thanks to![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
brown_betty, who pointed me to this link: A staff columnist with the Denver Post reports that over 100 evacuees are being held in dormitory buildings at the Lowry Campus of the Community College of Aurora, fenced in, heavily guarded, and visitors -- journalists, and at least some volunteers offering assistance -- are being kept out; more evacuees are expected. Note that at least one of the persons denied access to the site was offering, not boxes of redundant supplies, but jobs for evacuees to help them get back on their feet.
First-hand account of a location FEMA is setting up in Oklahoma for evacuees from the areas devastated by Hurricane Katrina
Go and read the full account. Then call/write/e-mail/fax your own representatives in Congress (if you are a US citizen or resident); the governor, the Senators and members of the House of Representatives for Oklahoma (edited to add:) and Colorado; the White House; FEMA; and your local news media. RAISE HELL. Contact information for elected government officials at all levels for all states can be found here. Don't forget to spread the news to less-internet-savvy friends, family, neighbours, co-workers, etc., and encourage them to speak out as well. Evacuees may or may not be getting subjected to this treatment RIGHT NOW in Oklahoma, but if or when evacuees do arrive there -- or at certain other sites around the country set up for evacuee relocation -- there has not even been the pretence, from any FEMA or other government official, that treating evacuees like prisoners is not considered acceptable. (edit: there is now a major-newspaper confirmed account of evacuees being held at a location with similar restrictions near Denver, Colorado; see the bottom of this post.)
Selected excerpts from the account, to underscore exactly how EVIL the government's current plans for 'housing' evacuees are:
FEMA will not allow any of the kitchen facilities in any of the cabins to be used by the occupants due to fire hazards. FEMA will deliver meals to the cabins. The refugees will be given two meals per day by FEMA. They will not be able to cook. In fact, the "host" goes on to explain, some churches had already enquired about whether they could come in on weekends and fix meals for the people staying in their cabin. FEMA won't allow it because there could be a situation where one cabin gets steaks and another gets hot dogs - and...
it could cause a riot.
It gets worse.
He then precedes [sic] to tell us that some churches had already enquired into whether they could send a van or bus on Sundays to pick up any occupants of their cabins who might be interested in attending church. FEMA will not allow this. The occupants of the camp cannot leave the camp for any reason. If they leave the camp they may never return. They will be issued FEMA identification cards and "a sum of money" and they will remain within the camp for the next 5 months. (underlined emphasis mine; bolded emphasis in original)
Two meals a day for five months. No one can visit you. You can't leave. Donations of food from the Red Cross, church groups (including the churches which *own* the cabins which are being used at this site) or private individuals will not be allowed in. WTF.
We start unloading our snacks. Mom appeared to have cornered the market in five counties on pop-tarts and apparently that was an acceptable snack so the guy started shoving them under the counter. He said these would be good to tied people over in between their two meals a day. But he tells my mother she must take all the breakfast cereal back. My mother protests that cereal requires no cooking. "There will be no milk, ma'am." My mother points to the huge industrial double-wide refrigerator the church had just purchased in the past year. "Ma'am, you don't understand...
It could cause a riot."
He then points to the vegetables and fruit. "You'll have to take that back as well. It looks like you've got about 10 apples there. I'm about to bring in 40 men. What would we do then?"
My mother, in her sweet, soft voice says, "Quarter them?"
"No ma'am. FEMA said no...
It could cause a riot. You don't understand the type of people that are about to come here...."
AMERICAN CITIZENS are the type of people who will be going there! AMERICAN CITIZENS! What is this, 1942?! WE DO NOT LOCK PEOPLE UP FOR THE CRIME OF HAVING SURVIVED HURRICANE KATRINA.
And no, being free (*maybe* -- it could, after all, cause a riot) to walk out -- into the middle of bloody nowhere in an unfamiliar state with nothing but the clothes FEMA deigned to allow to be donated to you -- is not being 'free' at ALL if doing so means that you lose your disaster-relief benefits by doing so. These people have no homes or jobs to go back to; they are dependent on others' assistance, whether from (if they're lucky) friends or family, or private charities or other institutions, or the government.
There are, by the way, going to be children at this camp. One of the 'hosts' (and what a horrifying euphemism that is -- clearly the evacuees are not to be treated as guests, so maybe we're supposed to read them as parasites?) explained that some of the camp's cabins had been designated men-only (for 'men' 14 and up), some women-only, and others for families. But NO MILK, along with that generous TWO MEALS A DAY. Including for the children sent there, presumably, because if the kids get the nutrition their growing bodies need but every adult doesn't get the same ration, it could cause a riot.
RESTRICTING PEOPLE TO TWO MEALS A DAY FOR FIVE MONTHS WILL CAUSE RIOTING BY ITSELF, YOU FAPPING MORON FUCKTARDS AAAAAGH.
More about where this internment camp -- or, as Valhall (Val Hall?), the author refers to it, detainment camp -- is located...
From the moment I heard about Falls Creek being scheduled to receive refugees I had two thoughts run through my mind:
1. What a beautiful place to be able to stay while trying to get your life back in order.
2. What a terrible location to be when you're trying to get your life back in order.
The first thought is because Falls Creek is nestled in the Arbuckle Mountains of south central Oklahoma. One of the more beautiful regions of the state. It would be a peaceful and beautiful place to try to start mending emotionally, and begin to figure what you're going to do next.
The second thought comes because Falls Creek is very secluded and absolutely no where near a population center. The closest route from Falls Creek to a connecting road is three miles on a winding narrow road called "High Road" (It gets that name for two reasons - it's goes over the mountain instead of around it like "Low Road" does, and it's where the teenagers of the area go to party). The road has not a single home on it for over 3 miles. After battling that 3 miles over mountains, you'll find yourself about 5 miles from the nearest town, Davis, Oklahoma, population ca. 2000. This is no place to start a new life.
She also notes that the area is notorious as a 'dead zone' for cellular phone service due to geography. There's no specific information on landlines at the camp, but my own experience of summer camps (which is how the facility is normally used) is that the cabins kids stay in do not have phone, only some administrative buildings do, and there are a small number (sometimes only one) of payphones for kids to use to call home or get calls from home. How are these people supposed to make any arrangements on their own for housing or employment if they have to wait on line for hours waiting to use the phone? Oh, wait, if anybody gets to use a telephone, that might cause a riot, so probably there will be no phone use allowed for the evacuees at all.
Updates and further details posted in the comments on the original account follow.
Timestamped 6-9-2005 at 09:41 AM (that means 6 September, not 9 June, obviously)
Springer just spoke with the preacher of our church. This is what he has been told. FEMA has stated until they get these people "in the system", which means on welfare/medicaid, unemployment, etc. and until they have worked through the health issues (the preacher was told there are three outbreaks of dysentary in the group of people coming to this camp) no one will be able to come in the camp and no one will be able to leave. Our preacher had had an offer from one man to come in and wire our cabin with satellite so that it could have TV reception. FEMA told him he could not come in due to health concerns.
The preacher stated that when the southern Baptist convention "donated" (I'm assuming that means they are taking no monies) the camp to FEMA for this purpose they had to sign over complete control. The preacher said we have no say in how things go from that point on. FEMA then "hired" (I guess) the OHP for "security purposes".
The preacher also had asked about the children and he was told that once the health concerns were under control the children would be attending school. But it his understanding this school will be inside the camp.
All of this makes sense to me and Springer. But I do question why taking sick people into a wilderness setting, in a confined area with 5000 people, is deemed a more appropriate action than taking them to hospitals. The camp is at least a 30 minute drive to the closest adequate hospital. The question becomes - how long will it take to get the health issues under control? Maybe FredT or some one can address that question.
A man in this area who owns a machine shop has already informed the preacher that if anybody in the camp has machining capabilities, he has two houses he owns available for them to move into and jobs for them.
CORRECTION: There are RUMORS of three dysentary outbreaks. The reason given for the lock-down is so they can figure out who is sick and who is not.
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Timestamped 6-9-2005 at 01:14 PM
Here are the two things that bothered me the most yesterday. The attitude that the people who were coming didn't have the morals to handle finding out the cabin down the street was getting a bit better grub than them without breaking out into camp-burning riots...
and the fact that the military has taken the first cabin in after you come through the main gate. I'm not real sure why the military has to be there at all to be quite honest, but why did they plant them as the first thing for these people to see when they drive through the front gate? That thought makes me sad.
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Timestamped 6-9-2005 at 01:24 PM
The cooking thing doesn't bother me that much, because I can see that it could lead to new big bold headlines. It's the fact they can't use the kitchen at all basically. They can make their own coffee (wow!), but they can't even have milk for cereal. We can't even bring them cold-cuts and cheese for sandwiches. That's a bit extreme. Concerning the potential for damage, I can only speak for the members of our church I have visited with. We knew full-well going in that you'll "get all kinds" when you're trying to help a large mass of people and that there's always the possibility of getting some one who has no regard for some else's property. Because, as my daughter so eloquently put it when the "bad people" comment was made last evening - there's SOME "bad people" everywhere...you always have some "bad people". Quite frankly the comment concerning vandalism or such was that we know we're doing the right thing...everything will be okay - even if we have to rebuild the darned thing.
- quote [from another commenter on the message board]:
As to the issue of leaving. To me that sounds as if they would not be allowed to move out, then move back in. Locations like that being at a premium, if you move out, someone will be their to move in right after you. I highly doubt that that means that they would not be allowed to make trips into town. In fact, I would imagine that once things settle down a bit, people would be allowed to come and go with some limits. Those limits would be dependent on the amount of liability that would be present.
Okay - just want to make clear on this. They cannot leave and come back - for 5 minutes, 10 minutes or 1/2 day. And that's confirmed too many ways now. The question is now - is this an extremely short-term situation? (this processing thingy). If so, I have no problem with that. That's what we'll have to wait out.
- quote:
Also, I imagine that some sort of communication/ telephone system will be set up eventually. The bureaocracy will demand it if nothing else.
The kfor.com article above stated phone service is being established. But then again, they said the Red Cross and the SBC is setting up the shelter needs and the Salvation Army is supplying clothes...
so I wouldn't try to bank on that in Denver, just yet.
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Timestamped 6-9-2005 at 01:48 PM
They will have heaters. Most have central heat and air and I'm sure the kind folks at FEMA - oops I mean the Red Cross are making sure they get cabins equipped with such. And just as soon as the Salvation Army gets through distributing the amphitheater full of Oklahoma citizen-donated clothing they claim they're donating...I'll try to get these 6 bags of clothes I'm running around with turned in. God knows we need to keep these massive-money-munching charities looking good! (We've got a whole bag of winter clothes in ours and as the season changes I'm sure people - oops, I mean the Salvation Army - will start getting them warmer clothes.
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Timestamped 6-9-2005 at 03:56 PM
I'm not talking about "inconveniences" and expecting life's niceties to be as they were before this. I'm talking about a government assisting a group of people through a tough time without the group of people having to give up inherent rights to get that help.
That's all in the world that is on my mind right now. Do I want them to have three meals a day? Yes. But if the government can't give them three, and can only give them two, that's okay as long as the government doesn't prevent me, a fellow citizen, from providing the third meal. That about sums up my concerns right now.
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Timestamped 6-9-2005 at 10:08 PM
- quote: Originally posted by Thatoneguy
okay then, lets not give them a place to live. Lets let them all roam the streets free, wherever they want to go. No money, no food. Some have a lost everything they have and feel that they've got nothing to lose.
The government is giving them a place to live and if they have somewhere else that they can go to they have the option to leave.
I don't see this as a prison. It's an attempt to keep these people in order because it could be much worse without it, for everyone.
Or am I missing the point?
I don't think there's any point you can miss. I believe the rest of us had, up until this point, tried desparately to miss your point. The U.S. government is not required to assist a single person in need. But through the voice of the American citizens it has heard loud and clear that in times of need we will step forward and help. The government decided, based on the perceived and real compassion of the American citizenry, to build a bureacratic agency that would dole out compassion in the name of the people. They failed. The money they have taken, and will continue to take, to fund FEMA comes from the compassionate people's pockets. The people who will continue to step forward and assist their fellow man in time of need - even after they themselves have been robbed by the bungling bureacrats.
Basic needs being met by charitable contribution, or stolen tax dollars in inept bureaucratic moves, should never require payment in the form of inalienable rights and inherent freedoms of the U.S. citizen.
Some of these people will be better off now, getting better food and shelter than they have had in their lives. Some of these people have lost everything and now stand on level ground with those who have been lifted up.
It doesn't matter. The price for charity is zero. And lest there ever be any price attached to it, it will never be the relinquishing of personal rights and freedoms for those basic needs.
These measures are not for the purpose of controlling these people. Not if they are being done in my name and with my tax dollars. They are to supply basic needs for the purpose of survival. These people owe me nothing, and more importantly they owe the governmental agencies that are providing these services in my name less.
You are not diminished as a citizen because you have been diminished in assets. (emphasis in original)
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Timestamped 7-9-2005 at 07:33 AM
It seems (again we're relying a state level media that says Red Cross is running Falls Creek) that things are quite a bit different at Camp Gruber (another refugee camp here in Oklahoma). You need a free subscription to read the entire article in the Daily Oklahoman.
Evacuees get settled, ready to go to school
Many of the evacuees to Camp Gruber have already left for family and friends homes. Elementary and middle-high kids remaining at the camp will attend school at Muskogee. High school kids will attend Tahlequah - an 80 mile roundtrip! (emphasis in original)
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Timestamped 7-9-2005 at 08:30 AM
- quote: Originally posted by Watchman77
Another thing I would like to point out is the fact that these states that have accepted evacuees are declaring "state of emergencies"... this puts them in line for federal money,
This is true. The governor of Oklahoma declared it in a state of emergency prior to receiving refugees.
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Timestamped 7-9-2005 at 09:11 AM
And so the story changes again...
http://www.kfor.com/Global/story.asp?S=3812422
- quote: DAVIS, Okla. -- Volunteers and relief workers remain ready to receive hurricane evacuees at the Falls Creek church camp in southern Oklahoma, but still no word on when or if the evacuees will arrive.
They were supposed to have arrived first on Sunday night, then on Monday night. They're still not there. Furthermore, our preacher and the host we spoke to at the cabin both stated these refugees were coming "straight from somewhere in Louisiana" but this article states these will be people brought from Texas (I assum from the Astrodome).
- quote: A spokeswoman for the Oklahoma Department of Emergency Management says the department remains in contact with officials in Texas and the Federal Emergency Management Agency.
quote: Church volunteers from around the state spent the weekend preparing the 360-acre Falls Creek camp in Davis for as many as three-thousand evacuees. An official at the camp says the facility is ready to provide food, medical attention, clothes and shelter for the displaced people.
Please note this is the same news agency that yesterday stated the Red Cross was working with the SBC to meet "sheltering needs". I called the news desk yesterday and asked why they had an article so wrought with erroneous statements. The lady I spoke with asked if I worked for Falls Creek. I stated I didn't and explained why we had been over there on Monday. She then says "you'll have to contact some one associated with Falls Creek organization and have them call us in order to get this corrected". EXCUSE ME??? THAT WOULD BE YOUR JOB - JOURNALIST!!!
Please note that today Red Cross and Salvation Army have not been mentioned, credit has been given to the church members of the various churches who worked their nipples and nuts off over the weekend, and the Oklahoma Emergency Management Agency and FEMA are now referenced in this article.
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Timestamped 7-9-2005 at 09:39 AM
The insanity and discrepancies continue.
A member of our church was sent by the preacher with a load of supplies yesterday (the preacher gave him his "credentials" to get in). He dropped the supplies off inside the camp. He states there were refugees everywhere.
*sigh*
I'm going to get hold of this person later in the day and speak with him personally to find out if he was allowed free access to the cabin or if he had to drop things at the "central warehouse".
I'll report back later. I'm getting tired of the mish-mash mess coming from the press.
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Timestamped 7-9-2005 at 11:23 AM
Just spoke with the church member who delivered the goods yesterday (who happens to be my nephew). He counted at least 10 buses that had arrived and a number of refugees. No refugees have been placed in our cabin yet. The pass he entered on was confiscated and he was informed that there would be "new" passes and he would not be able to get back in unless he had one of them. He phoned the preacher who confirmed he had already received the new "official" passes (apparently the original passes were hurriedly made from something readily available from Falls Creek and the new ones are the government issued ones, we are supposing). He was allowed to go all the way to our cabin and did not have to offload our church's supplies to a central location (which is good news). He did state he felt that security was being ramped up while he was there. There were several "people in BDU's" near the front gate when he entered. I didn't get the impression they in any way interacted with him though[.]
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Timestamped 7-9-2005 at 11:45 AM
BDU's - battle dress uniforms
It's better than seeing people in their BVD's...I think. (Image copied and uploaded to my LJ to avoid bandwidth theft.)
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Comment by QuietSoul (NOT by Val)
Timestamped 7-9-2005 at 11:48 AM
Something's not jiving here...
- quote: September 6, 2005 – After anticipating the arrival of 3,000 survivors from Hurricane Katrina for more than two days, volunteers and government agencies were given the word late Tuesday that the status of operations at Falls Creek was put on standby.
Major Mike Grime, Oklahoma Highway Patrol, announced to nearly 400 volunteers and state personnel that the decision had been made by the Governor and other state officials to scale back operations at Falls Creek. "The good news is that it appears those who needed our help have been taken care of for now," Grimes explained. "We will scale back to a skeleton crew for now, but none of our facilities will be compromised. There will be troopers present 24 hours a day at Falls Creek as we evaluate the need on a 12, 24, 36 and 48 hour basis. Falls Creek has been and will continue to be ready within a 10 to 12 hour window in the event that the conference facility is still needed." While disappointment was evident on the faces of many, appreciation for the Falls Creek operation was recognized with a round of applause.
Following Major Grimes comments Anthony L. Jordan, executive director-treasurer of the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma assured the crowd that their hard work had not been in vain. "We are and continue to be prepared in the event that we are needed. It is very possible that you may be needed within the next 48 hours. We will notify you immediately should we need your assistance in welcoming our Oklahoma guests to our great state," said Jordan. "Oklahoma has had an opportunity to look inside the hearts of Oklahoma Baptists. We are honored to have this opportunity to serve. Our hearts are in the right place we have served our state and the survivors by being ready. We will be here if needed."
More than 1,200 volunteers registered for the operation at Falls Creek. Many of the volunteers will remain on standby status in the event that they are needed within the next 48 hours.
link [dead link; see below]
So are refugees there or not?
They rent the facility for 5 months.. They hire 1200 volunteers + staff.. and then call the whole thing off after the entire camp is mobilized and setup? (emphasis in original)
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Timestamped 7-9-2005 at 12:39 PM
QuietSoul,
Either your link is [not] working or the article has been removed.
here's the correct link
Stand by
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Timestamped 8-9-2005 at 05:28 AM
It appears something similar to what has occurred here - where the state and local people have rushed to organize facilities and then FEMA has all of a sudden called off sending evacuees - has occurred in several states.
http://www.newsok.com/article/1609062/?template=home/main
- quote:
Gov. Brad Henry said his counterparts across the country are frustrated at Federal Emergency Management Agency officials who told Oklahoma late Tuesday to back off plans to receive thousands more of Hurricane Katrina evacuees.
Henry participated in a conference call early Wednesday between state governors, U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and FEMA director Mike Brown, who faces growing criticism for his handling of the hurricane aftermath. About 18 governors asked questions, Henry said.
"Every state has had the same experience," Henry said. "Some of the stories I’ve heard from other states are worse."
State officials and volunteers prepared to house as many as 3,000 evacuees at the Falls Creek Conference Center, a 350-acre site operated by the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma near Davis.
The federal agency, charged with coordinating disaster response, repeatedly changed its story on when, if ever, evacuees would arrive at Falls Creek.
Timestamped 8-9-2005 at 06:51 AM
This thing just is killing me. It is not going to surprise me when the governors take over. I mean truly just kick FEMA out of the situation.
Governor Perry in Texas is pleading for help. He's got every convention center in Houston packed with people sleeping in a communal space with no privacy, not even a semblance of dignity. THERE IS NOTHING DIGNIFIED ABOUT HAVING TO SLEEP AMONG 12000 PEOPLE ON AN ARENA FLOOR.
He needs help. He needs to start moving these people out of this situation. He calls for help and the good governors of the surrounding states step up to help him. BUT FEMA SCREWS IT UP.
Falls Creek, if used PROPERLY, LOGICALLYand PRAGMATICALLY, and with what should be the utmost priority of moving the most people to the best environment in the quickest manner, would be the BEST processing site anyone could pick. If the camp was used to house people for no more than 2 to 3 weeks while you are finding them an apartment and getting all their needs set up through entitlements, it would be a pleasant, peaceful place that would at least give some semblance of dignity and community versus a FARKING ARENA FLOOR.
But NOOOOO, even if the "host" was dead wrong and these people were going to be allowed to come and go after some "processing" period, this is not a place you take 3000 urban dwellers and stick themf or 5 months! And even if they "come and go" it would be limited because it would have to be scheduled bus runs to places.
If farking FEMA isn't working to get ever single displaced person into an apartment or house in some metropolitan area as quickly as they possibly can - THEY ARE CONTINUING TO SCREW THESE PEOPLE!
Let's just say there are a 1/2 million people who need to be placed in long-term housing and all a full entitlement package (food stamps, aid for dependent children, medicaid, housing and utilities). The whole farking package would be $5000/month or less. And assuming that each of the 1/2 million people got their own apartment (which isn't so because there are families) that's 2.5 billion/month. FEMA's SPENDING 1/2 BILLION A DAY!
AND - to say that the 2.5 billion/month was all due to Katrina would be flying crock of because with 25% of New Orlean's population under the national poverty line A WHOLE HEAPING HELPING OF THESE PEOPLE WERE ALREADY ON A FULL ENTITLEMENT PACKAGE!
These people need to be moved 3000 at a time out of the humiliating environment that Barbara Bush thinks is "good" to places like this camp for no longer than 2 - 3 weeks and then MOVED INTO HOUSING. There's Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin, OKC, Tulsa, Ft. Smith, Shreveport/Bossier City, Little Rock, Memphis, Louisville.
Start treating them like people! PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES!!!
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Timestamped 8-9-2005 at 07:14 AM
[In response to a comment by an ATS user registered as mrsdudara] No mrs....they didn't arrive Saturday night. And please note that the statements made in that article [ http://feeds.oklahomacitynews.net/?rid=defd58c42bb77c24&cat=ade52738bf7d5fc8&f=1 ] were made by the Falls Creek leader PRIOR to FEMA telling them how it would REALLY be.
All weekend church members worked to fill these "buckets of blessings" and to ready this camp to PAMPER these people and dote on them as long as they needed to. Then - Monday came and a big phat reality check.
I've got to tell you at this point I'm not sure the deal wasn't busted on the Falls Creek side instead of the FEMA side. I'm serious. I have more pictures of our time in there than what I've posted on this thread. One picture my daughter took was of one of the top men at Falls Creek...one of the people in charge. As we turned the corner which led us passed the troops this man was standing with two other men who appeared to work for Falls Creek. This man was VISIBLE ANGRY. I noticed his face as I turned the corner, but did not know who he was. My daughter knows him. She goes "OH my gosh, mommy! There's (I forget his name). Oh my gosh! Look how mad he is! Oh my gosh!" And she snaps the picture.
She later told me that he is a very happy person who she has only seen get angry one time before and it was over some situation that had been reported out of Germany where the German government had pulled something with some southern baptist missionaries. But she followed up - He wasn't near as mad as he looked yesterday!
I personally have to state that I don't want the camp used for a 5 month holding facility. Wouldn't that just be f-ing great to have horror stories come out of a southern baptist camp? And I also have to say I'm not sure this whole 5 month holding plan wasn't chosen for this camp BECAUSE OF THAT. So that if anything went wrong, or the whole experiment went bad FEMA could just blame it on those crazy fundamentalist, evangelical southern baptists!
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Timestamped 8-9-2005 at 08:11 AM
- quote: Originally posted by clearmind
seems like attention may have delayed something in this case...
gosh val..maybe you did stumble into a fema detention facility. as evacuees/refugesare id'd..they will be 'undesirables' around. maybe fema wants a place to put them, rather that let them sit in local jails. this area would be a perfect place..very secluded.
if i am reading the articles right...they say they are not using the camp? but your friend saw busses in camp, but i don't recall him seeing any 'evacuees'......
More details on that. He stated he saw about 10 buses total. 2 of those were large charter buses and the others were "smaller", but larger than school buses - these buses were white and he didn't see any kind of markings on them. I asked him if they were the Falls Creek shuttle buses (which are old school buses painted white and have "Falls Creek Shuttle" painted on the side and front). He said "No! No, They weren't Falls Creek buses, and they were bigger than those.) He states he saw some where between 50 and 100 people standing in a rather scattered fashion, but in the same general area. Almost all of these people were african-american and they were loitering about as if they were waiting for something to happen....i.e. they weren't "doing anything" like they were workers or such. 50 to 100 people would be just about right for two greyhound buses - especially if people had any belongings with them.
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Timestamped 8-9-2005 at 02:52 PM
Hey guys,
I just want you all to know I just turned down an interview with NPR about this story. I wanted you to know so that you would understand that people do listen to us. And we do have a voice. And we can make a difference. I also wanted to say how grateful I am that NPR was willing to give me the opportunity to discuss this. I'm sorry that I couldn't do it though. NPR couldn't afford me anonymity and I just don't feel personally comfortable with discussing this in my real name.
I hope everybody understands.
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Timestamped 9-9-2005 at 06:46 AM
- quote: Originally posted by ShakyaHeir
Does anyone have any coordinates for these camps?
It'd be interesting to see an overhead view from Google Earth.
Here is the Google satellite pic for directly over Falls Creek:
Falls Creek
I was informed yesterday that there was some podunk doomsday board that was attempting to debunk what I have told here by stating Falls Creek is a national guard training camp and it was used as some type of concentration camp or what not back during WW II and that as late as the 80's it was just a tent camp, etc. And that it's very close to Camp Gruber.
Absolutely every statement in the above paragraph is false.
1. Falls Creek has ALWAYS been the property of the Oklahoma state Baptist convention since it was founded in 1917.
2. It has never been a national guard training facility.
3. It has never been a concentration/detainment camp.
4. With the exception of new cabins constantly being built by churches the camp looks about the same as it did in the 70's. The most drastic changes are being made right now with the old Tabernacle being bulldozed and new Tabernacle being built. The amphitheatre is new as well. But it hasn't had tents anytime in my life. It has had structured cabins for decades and decades.
5. Falls Creek is about 8 miles south of Davis, Oklahoma. Camp Gruber, which is a National Guard training facility, is by Muskogee, Oklahoma. The driving distance between these two towns is 205 miles - about 3 hours.
[mapquest image not displayed due to size; click to view]
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Timestamped 9-9-2005 at 10:04 AM
I just wanted to follow up on the comments concerning "confirming" this story. I have now spoken with a reporter from NPR and a reporter with the Daily Oklahoman. In both cases I have given my full REAL name to these reporters. The NPR person did not request a contact number from me, but in the case of the Daily Oklahoman, not only do they have my home number, they have my work number. What I'm trying to emphasize here is that I'm not trying to keep my real identity from what I have stated here. I'm trying to keep my identity from being revealed HERE.
There's a big difference. So I guess my point is, if knowing who I am constitutes "confirming" this story - it's been "confirmed" to two separate reporters. The Daily Oklahoman reporter is working to be able to report this story and still provide me a level of anonymity. If his editor says no, then again, I guess it won't get reported. But as I stated to him on the phone last night, there needs to be a precedent on this at some point. There is a growing number of civilians out in the world that are no longer accepting mainstream reports at face value and are witnessing things they have no way to make public unless some one can protect them.
If it doesn't happen with me, it will eventually happen with some one. But there is no reason for me to endanger my job, or my privacy (let's face it 1.3 million sets of eyes look at this website every month!) when I am cooperating on the backside to confirm my identity and even my story.
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Timestamped 9-9-2005 at 03:27 PM
- quote: Originally posted by loam
You said people are there now. Could you confirm children? If so, any way to confirm enrollment in school?
Well beings there have been numerous articles stating no one is over there. I'm assuming no one is over there. If the people my nephew saw on Tuesday were, in fact, evacuees, apparently they were in transit and continued on (possibly to Gruber, but I don't know).
As far as I know no one from our church has been back over there since they sent home all the "hosts". (emphasis mine)
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Timestamped 9-9-2005 at 03:50 PM
I just wanted to say something. I don't mind at all some one asking me questions if they some way have doubts about my post. I don't mind that at all. But it's disingenuous to start silly personal pock-shots based on semantics.
I had no agenda - other than sharing what I saw and was told. That's all I've done here. I've repeated my experience. I've repeated the statements made to me. I've shared what I saw. And I've shared my daughter's pics.
I had my son look over my post to ensure that everything was factual according to what we saw and what we were told. My son is 21 years old and lives on his own now and he is his own man. He did find one error and that was when I quoted him. When I stated he said, "Welcome to Krakow." That was wrong...he corrected me that his statement was "Welcome to Nazi Germany." So, now I have corrected that.
Actually, up until just a few days ago my son was the neo-con of our family. And he was proud of that I suppose. He no longer is. We're a family of Republicans, but we're a family of very confused Republicans right now. Mind you - I'll never be a Democrat - and I won't - but I'm not sure where to turn now.
My son and my daughter both came away from this aware that if they ever are so unfortunate to lose everything they own (no matter how much or how little that originally was) they will live in the woods, swamp or mountains, but they won't go and ask for government assistance. I didn't teach them that - their experience taught them that. We went over there to participate in a charitable effort. That's not the experience we had.
All I can do is tell what actually happened...I can't make you believe it.
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This LJ post has now been edited to add: I have copied out all of Val's updates as of 7am ET on Saturday 10 September. Based on her most recent updates, the Falls Creek camp, according to official reports, will not be receiving any evacuees and never housed any, though plans to do so had been made and were later put on hold. This does not explain, however, the eyewitness report of "between 50 and 100 people," mostly black, who were seen at Falls Creek along with approximately 10 busses which appeared to have brought them there, sometime between Monday 5 September and Thursday 8 September -- in other words, roughly contemporaneously with the announcement that the Falls Creek camp would not be used to house refugees. No one from the church groups affiliated with the camp, at last report, had been back to the site in several days to be able to confirm the presence or absence of Katrina evacuees.
For all we know, evacuees *are* being sent to Falls Creek, and there's no reason to think conditions there would be improved by having independent outside contact cut off or the media turning their attention away, if that were the case.
The most important thing is not whether this one particular camp is going to house evacuees or not. The most important thing is that FEMA was all ready to go ahead with plans to send evacuees there under the conditions described above.
This could happen almost anywhere in America.
As a people, we have to choose whether to be vigilant, or to be silent. (Check out what the media were reporting about Falls Creek, as quoted in or linked from the transcribed updates above, and think twice about accepting at face value any news item about conditions at sites you could investigate for yourself.) But one thing is clear -- if we are not watching, this is what the federal government will try to do. That's not wild speculation; it's not speculation at all. It is what happened in Oklahoma.
A related account about a relocation site being prepared for evacuees in Massachusetts can now be found in a separate entry here. (Thanks for your patience.)
And, just a reminder, evacuees will NOT be able to tell friends, family, the media, or anyone else where they're being sent for interim shelter before they get to their destination, because FEMA won't be telling THEM where they're going.
Other first-hand accounts I have linked to, transcribed and/or excerpted can be found here.
Edited to add: Thanks to
brown_betty, who pointed me to this link: A staff columnist with the Denver Post reports that over 100 evacuees are being held in dormitory buildings at the Lowry Campus of the Community College of Aurora, fenced in, heavily guarded, and visitors -- journalists, and at least some volunteers offering assistance -- are being kept out; more evacuees are expected. Note that at least one of the persons denied access to the site was offering, not boxes of redundant supplies, but jobs for evacuees to help them get back on their feet.
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no subject
Date: 2005-09-10 09:31 am (UTC)I just wanted to thank you for posts like this one.
There aren't many *useful* news in the german media anymore, and if they make special reports, they are usually beginning at 10 pm or even later.
And even then, they mostly concentrate on the pictures of the flooded New Orleans, or interview two to three people *who still have a home*
I learned much more from posts like yours or Te's than from german TV, thanks!